You state that a person is contagious 4 days before symptoms appear. This is at odds with what the NHS state:
“You’re infectious from when you first have symptoms (around 4 days before the rash appears) until 4 days after you get the rash.” (https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/measles/)
Also what people don’t realise is that a person can die 7-10 years after an acute measles infection.
That death isn’t the only complication of the disease.
The bottom line is any MD who spreads such misinformation is harming the public in tangible ways, putting lives at risk. This is why this kind of misinformatin needs to be criminalized. Someone might believe it and their chid or another child will die as a result.
“The most common complications of measles infection are otitis media (7 to 9% of cases),
pneumonia (1 to 6%), diarrhoea (8%) and convulsions (0.5%). Other, rarer complications
include encephalitis (overall rate of one to four per 1000-2000 cases of measles) and sub-
acute sclerosing pan-encephalitis (SSPE) (see below) (Plotkin et al, 2018 Chapter 37; Norrby and Oxman, 1990; Perry and Halsey, 2004; McLean and Carter, 1990; Miller, 1978).
Historically death occurred in one in 5000 cases in the UK (Miller, 1985). The case–fatality
ratio for measles is age- related and is high in children under one year of age, lower in
children aged one to nine years and rises again in teenagers and adults (Plotkin et al, 2018
Chapter 37). Measles can be severe, particularly in immunosuppressed individuals and
young infants. It is also more severe in pregnancy, and increases the risk of miscarriage,
stillbirth, or preterm delivery. Complications are also more common and more severe in
I had measles when I was an infant somewhere around 1959-1961 fortunately I wasn’t adversely affected, as far as i am aware, certainly nothing obvious. The measles vaccine wasn’t licensed in the U.K. until 1967/68.
I think antivaxers is like Del spread this kind of been misinformation on purpose. It could be partly because they don’t know how to do math but also because they’re wealthy spreading misinformation to downplay the importance of vaccines.
I’ve always understood that we’re infectious before symptoms appear so it’s really difficult to prevent the spread of measles and measles is not a benign infection. Rubella might be mild in most people unless you’re a fetus but measles is a big deal.
There is no "measles death rate". The data only suggests an association with a 'measles' diagnosis. The actual cause of death is likely dangerous treatments that were used such as aspirin or mercury.
The way 'measles' is diagnosed is very different these days than it was in the 1960s so there is no "measles death rate" but at best a variety of 'measles' associated death rates, most of which are not recorded or only were recorded during specific periods in time. Placing an amalgam of these 'death rates' into a single graph or table is severely bad practice.
This makes "measles" a buzz word in a sea of other buzz words.
" Adopt "loaded" language (characterized by "thought-terminating clichés"). Words are the tools we use to think with. These "special" words constrict rather than expand understanding. They function to reduce complexities of experience into trite, platitudinous "buzz words"."
I’d also like to point out that the headline death rate that is reported by antivaxers is in of itself a deliberate miscalculation and misrepresentation. It is the mortality applied to *the entire US population* rather than being applied to the time-specific exposure within an at risk population. It’s “Antivax Math” at its most egregious.
For example, I could similarly claim the risk of death from vaccine myocarditis is less than one in 330,000,000. Population-wise, that is “correct” (since I could truthfully claim there is less than one death a year, and the population is 330,000,000). But we don’t calculate risk like that, we talk about the risk of death for those who are actually at risk of the event (namely the Covid vaccinated) and define it within a limited time period (eg per year).
So for measles, we must calculate the death rate as the number dying from measles per year within the at risk population which would be at a specific age. You could then say what the risk is for a child aged 2-5 for example. Because deaths are so infrequent, we’d need to use data accrued over several decades, to ascertain the “usual” number of deaths each year in different age groups.
But as you point out, these are the death rates within vaccinated as well as unvaccinated children, and for accuracy, one would also need to calculate the death rates split by this denominator.
Antivaxers will never present the risks of measles in this way. They will deliberately manipulate the numbers to make the diseases appear to be as benign as possible, and to exaggerate the risk of vaccine reactions.
You state that a person is contagious 4 days before symptoms appear. This is at odds with what the NHS state:
“You’re infectious from when you first have symptoms (around 4 days before the rash appears) until 4 days after you get the rash.” (https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/measles/)
Also what people don’t realise is that a person can die 7-10 years after an acute measles infection.
That death isn’t the only complication of the disease.
In fact Vaxopedia is correct, as well as the NHS…
Vaxopedia stated: “people with measles are contagious for up to 4 days before and 4 days after they develop a rash”
That is correct and consistent with what the NHS says.
About 10 days after exposure, individuals will develop fever, coryza, sore eyes.
They are infectious from this point forward (during what is defined as the prodromal period)
At around 14 days after exposure the typical rash develops.
I’m certain that when I made my comment the post included the phrase “before symptoms appear”, otherwise my comment doesn’t make sense.
Yes, I fixed it. Thanks.
The bottom line is any MD who spreads such misinformation is harming the public in tangible ways, putting lives at risk. This is why this kind of misinformatin needs to be criminalized. Someone might believe it and their chid or another child will die as a result.
This is from the U.K. Green Book chapter on measles
(Or https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/69dcf3806b695d635c34dccc/UKHSA_Green_Book_on_Measles_2_4_26.pdf)
“The most common complications of measles infection are otitis media (7 to 9% of cases),
pneumonia (1 to 6%), diarrhoea (8%) and convulsions (0.5%). Other, rarer complications
include encephalitis (overall rate of one to four per 1000-2000 cases of measles) and sub-
acute sclerosing pan-encephalitis (SSPE) (see below) (Plotkin et al, 2018 Chapter 37; Norrby and Oxman, 1990; Perry and Halsey, 2004; McLean and Carter, 1990; Miller, 1978).
Historically death occurred in one in 5000 cases in the UK (Miller, 1985). The case–fatality
ratio for measles is age- related and is high in children under one year of age, lower in
children aged one to nine years and rises again in teenagers and adults (Plotkin et al, 2018
Chapter 37). Measles can be severe, particularly in immunosuppressed individuals and
young infants. It is also more severe in pregnancy, and increases the risk of miscarriage,
stillbirth, or preterm delivery. Complications are also more common and more severe in
poorly nourished and/or chronically ill children.”
Also the number of cases/deaths in England and Wales between 1940 and 2025
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/measles-historic-confirmed-cases-notifications-and-deaths/measles-historic-confirmed-cases-notifications-and-deaths#measles-notifications-and-deaths-in-england-and-wales-1940-to-2025
I had measles when I was an infant somewhere around 1959-1961 fortunately I wasn’t adversely affected, as far as i am aware, certainly nothing obvious. The measles vaccine wasn’t licensed in the U.K. until 1967/68.
I think antivaxers is like Del spread this kind of been misinformation on purpose. It could be partly because they don’t know how to do math but also because they’re wealthy spreading misinformation to downplay the importance of vaccines.
I’ve always understood that we’re infectious before symptoms appear so it’s really difficult to prevent the spread of measles and measles is not a benign infection. Rubella might be mild in most people unless you’re a fetus but measles is a big deal.
There is no "measles death rate". The data only suggests an association with a 'measles' diagnosis. The actual cause of death is likely dangerous treatments that were used such as aspirin or mercury.
https://www.healthscience.org/dr-john-h-tilden-biography/
The way 'measles' is diagnosed is very different these days than it was in the 1960s so there is no "measles death rate" but at best a variety of 'measles' associated death rates, most of which are not recorded or only were recorded during specific periods in time. Placing an amalgam of these 'death rates' into a single graph or table is severely bad practice.
https://viroliegynewsletter.substack.com/p/measles-magic
This makes "measles" a buzz word in a sea of other buzz words.
" Adopt "loaded" language (characterized by "thought-terminating clichés"). Words are the tools we use to think with. These "special" words constrict rather than expand understanding. They function to reduce complexities of experience into trite, platitudinous "buzz words"."
https://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html
Trying to work with such erroneous data and concepts is a fools errant. Better to work on the lymphatic system:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnfgzTq_924
I’d also like to point out that the headline death rate that is reported by antivaxers is in of itself a deliberate miscalculation and misrepresentation. It is the mortality applied to *the entire US population* rather than being applied to the time-specific exposure within an at risk population. It’s “Antivax Math” at its most egregious.
For example, I could similarly claim the risk of death from vaccine myocarditis is less than one in 330,000,000. Population-wise, that is “correct” (since I could truthfully claim there is less than one death a year, and the population is 330,000,000). But we don’t calculate risk like that, we talk about the risk of death for those who are actually at risk of the event (namely the Covid vaccinated) and define it within a limited time period (eg per year).
So for measles, we must calculate the death rate as the number dying from measles per year within the at risk population which would be at a specific age. You could then say what the risk is for a child aged 2-5 for example. Because deaths are so infrequent, we’d need to use data accrued over several decades, to ascertain the “usual” number of deaths each year in different age groups.
But as you point out, these are the death rates within vaccinated as well as unvaccinated children, and for accuracy, one would also need to calculate the death rates split by this denominator.
Antivaxers will never present the risks of measles in this way. They will deliberately manipulate the numbers to make the diseases appear to be as benign as possible, and to exaggerate the risk of vaccine reactions.